Credo
Spirit
Sense
of
Life
Objectivists Headquarters
War
People
Store
Forum



Forum
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Post 0

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 12:30pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
For anyone interested in unfinished mixes of some tunes one of my bands recorded last week, check out mp3s at http://users.1st.net/milk/Lohio/*This is not headbanging caterwauling*
 
Note: If using Winamp or another player with an EQ, boost the bass because it's real low in the mix, and that's MY instrument, so it's most important! LoL
 
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Jake




Post 1

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 12:52pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
They sound like copies, or mixtures of different existing songs and put together into one song.

For instance the start of number 02 sounds like one of the songs by no doubt.




Post 2

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 5:45pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Which song by No Doubt?
 
In rock music, progressions are inevitably repeated.  In a world where John Fogerty has been sued for plagiarizing himself, I think the whole thing has gone out of control.  As for the songs being copies-far from it.  These songs were folk songs written by our singer/rhythm guitar player Greg Dutton, which were then reworked as rock songs.  I was added to the band after these songs were written (except Broken Cup), so I had no part in writing the progressions, etc, although I would certainly grant that they reflect the inspiration Greg and lead guitarist Ryan Smith had from bands they frequently listen to, such as Radiohead, Wilco, The White Stripes, the Strokes, Coldplay, and many other bands who fall into the recently popular category of straight-ahead rock n roll, often with accompaniment from pianos (I have called this the neo-Beatle sound).
 
I think that fitting into a genre that a band aspires to fit into is not cause to call them "copies."  And even so, is it so bad to copy a style which is popular and expressive?  Bands like Nirvana, the Beatles, and Black Sabbath all spawned copies, a fact which is an indirect sign of appreciation of these pioneering bands.  You can't be a pioneer in music if no one imitates what you're doing.  In that case, you're just different.
 
Greg and Ryan are very much enthusiastic about the style of music they play, and admittedly owe a lot of gratitude to the pioneering bands who have paved the way for Lohio's sound to be accepted and well-received by the public.  None of us have ever claimed to be "something different" or completely or partly "original" though I know from growing up with both of these guys that they've been influenced by the Beatles from a young age and have been playing music like this even before bands like the Strokes were getting recognition for it.  The neo-Beatle sound has been alive in the underground for quite a while now, and bands are just in the last few years getting recognition for reviving the musicianship-centered aspects that made the Beatles famous.
 
In decades past, there has been a noticeable decline in musicianship and more of an emphasis on details such as fashion and physical sex-appeal.  To their credit, Greg and Ryan are fantastic musicians, both excelling at guitar, harmonica, piano, and singing.  Ryan can also play drums, ukelele, bass, and a few other instruments.  Greg can play banjo, and is an aspiring luthier, producing a very fine banjo his first try at the craft.  Our drummer, B.C. Taylor is the son of moderately well-known musician B.E. Taylor, and B.C. is a virtuoso on the instrument.  He is leaving us soon to attend the Berklee School of Music, a very prestigious university for higher education in music.  Lastly, I have excelled at bass, play drums and guitar, am learning to play piano, and am skilled in aspects of Latin, African, and other percussion such as bongos, djembe, doumbek, timbales, congas, didjeridoo, and tambourine.  I'm also an aspiring sound engineer and have worked on several projects in various studios, both as a session bassist and producer/engineer.
 
I doubt the typical classical musician, for instance, can play such a variety of instruments, or have the ability to bring them all together.  Most classical musicians are like robots playing from the sheets of music in front of them, and without said sheets, are like deer in headlights.  Nevertheless, these musicians are always credited with being of utmost musical purity, and all other musicians are considered invalids.  Call me a copy, but at least I'm not a robot.
 
Thanks for your comments though, I do appreciate them.




Post 3

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 7:23pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit

"They sound like copies, or mixtures of different existing songs and put together into one song.

For instance the start of number 02 sounds like one of the songs by no doubt."

I know which NO DOUBT song you are referring to, "Bathwater."
It does have a slight similarity, but I also heard a bit of the Cars, or Foreigner, and the Kinks "Sunny Afternoon" in that...yet it's not any of those songs. There's nothing new under the sun, we use the same ingredients...Blues songs are usually the same chord progression, with different lyrics an solos, the chord structure merely being the vehicle, and while it's not groundbreaking or original, it's very common and perfectly acceptable. It's usually the chord progressions that define a genre; blued use a certain set, country a certain set, etc. What Lohio is using is a very typically British sounding progression, (it also reminds me of the theme to RED DWARF and ABFAB.) The other songs sound different, though, a little southern fried rock, a little John Fogerty, a lot of rock and roll. Sounds like you guys had fun, Lance. :)




Post 4

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 12:35amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I'm actually very familiar with "Bathwater" by No Doubt and hear no similarity at all.  Perhaps you're thinking of a different No Doubt song?  I always thought from day one, however, that the song's beginning reminded me of "Blueside" by Rooney, but after downloading it (for scientific analysis only), it's not really that similar.




Post 5

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 12:49amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
The other songs sound different, though, a little southern fried rock, a little John Fogerty, a lot of rock and roll. Sounds like you guys had fun, Lance. :)


That was Jake. This is Lance. I would never stoop so low as to shamelessly plug my own music...


www.doublelightmusic.com




Post 6

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 1:08amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I dig your stuff!  I'm gonna buy your CD when I get a few bucks!
 
I can't find a band or musicians willing to do stuff like you're doing.  It's a total bummer.




Post 7

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 1:14amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Do you have other basses, or do you just use that Geddy Lee-ish Fender Jazz in your picture?  You get solid tone.  What is your setup?



Post 8

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 1:28amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hey Jake, and thanks. Actually on that one I used a Warwick Thumb played through a chain of devices which must remain confidential. :-) I'm trying to put a touring band together based down here in Austin, Texas.

That jazz bass there I bought with money I had gotten for a Fireglo red Rick 4003. I loved that bass but it had a neck problem that I couldn't fix. I've been using a Dean Markeley amp for gigs down here but I'm looking into Hartke stuff maybe as soon as next week. I've never been a gear nut but it makes a difference to use quality stuff if you can.

What kind of stuff are you using? I'll check out your stuff tomorrow. My ears are fatigued from a gig we played tonight. (Be careful with your ears!)




Post 9

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 8:14amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Sorry, Jake, Sorry, Lance. I was taking Nyquil for an evil cold. I knew it was a Moore...at least I didn't say Michael!



Post 10

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:35amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Ahh the Warwick, hence the good tone.  :)
 
I use Warwicks exclusively.  The last 5 basses I've bought were a Streamer Standard 4 (made in 1999), Thumb 5 Bolt-On (1994), Corvette Standard 4 with EMGs (1996), Corvette Standard (1995), and my main bass is a Streamer LX 5 (1998).  I'm also in the process of buying a fretless Fortress One 5 (1997).  I have also been playing Genz Benz cabs exclusively for the last 5+ years.  At one time or another, and in various configurations, I had 2 of their 1x12 cabs, 2 of their 1x15 cabs, a small 50W 12" combo, and my current rig consists of a 410T-XB, a 410T, and 2 210T-XBs.  I used many amps over the years, including a Hartke 1415 Combo, Peavey Mark III, Peavey DPB300, Peavey Firebass 700, SWR Bass 350, SWR Mo'Bass, and currently I have settled on a Genz Benz GBE600.
 
Not to turn this forum into a commercial, but I strongly urge you to check out GB stuff if you haven't.  I buy, sell, and trade on eBay all the time, and in the last year or so, I've owned an Ampeg BXT-410HL4 (Victor Wooten's signature cab), an SWR Triad, a Hartke 4.5 XL, and some various 15" and 18" cabs.  I prefer the GB tone to all of these.  I still have the SWR Triad, and I have been thinking about selling my GB 410T, in case you're interested.  :)
 
I like Hartke tone, but I had problems with the 1415 Combo I had.  140W, 15" driver.  I blew the speaker 2 separate times, as a result of the amp being faulty (I didn't know that until I traded it back in where I bought it for WAY less than I paid!), and to get a replacement speaker from Hartke literally takes months.  I had that combo for about a year, and I only had it in my possession to play it probably 3 months out of that time.
 
I'm a picture freak, so if you're interested in checking out any pics of gear I've owned, here's a bunch of links to my pictures:
 
http://users.1st.net/milk/Warwick_Corvette_95
http://users.1st.net/milk/Thumb5
http://users.1st.net/milk/SWR_Mo'Bass
http://users.1st.net/milk/SWR_Mo'Control
http://users.1st.net/milk/SWR_350
http://users.1st.net/milk/Streamer5
http://users.1st.net/milk/LS115B
http://users.1st.net/milk/Legion_Stack
http://users.1st.net/milk/Firebass
http://users.1st.net/milk/Corvette
http://users.1st.net/milk/Champ
http://users.1st.net/milk/Ampeg_BXT-410HL4

http://users.1st.net/milk/band/pictures/Jake's_Rig2.JPG
 
I'll have to put some more up on my webspace.  :)




Post 11

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 10:31pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hey Jake, I listened to those 4 tunes. Well-produced and your playing is solid. And, of course, nice tone! The first song doesn't do much for me. I like the second one the best after only the one listen. I liked the chord structure a lot. And the dude's voice is best on that one. He has a "college-band" kind of voice. Not my cup of tea. Anyhow, thanks for putting that up. 

As far as bass cabinetry, I'm hearing a lot of stories about Hartke's having to go back to the shop for repairs. But I really like the tone of their heads. Maybe I'll go with the Hartke head and go for different, more road worthy cabs. What do you think?




Post 12

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:19pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Thanks for listening to the songs.  Yeah, they weren't my cup of tea either at first, but I was filling in on bass because Ryan's one of my best friends from childhood and he asked me to fill in as a personal favor.  The music still isn't necessarily my absolute favorite, but it has grown on me, and the good times I have with those guys more than makes up for any lack of interest I might have for the tunes.
 
I agree, I think the production is top notch.  Those are just rough mixes.  Rick Witkowski (sp?) at Studio L in Weirton, WV was great to work with while tracking, and things are going well with the mixing.  In the studio, I plugged in to a Groove Tubes mic pre-amp and I thought it sounded great.  And yeah there's a certain college sound in Greg's voice.  His country/folk background is definitely apparent.  And the college sound is acceptable I guess, given we're all in college.  :)
 
About the Hartke amps, I think they sound good and are pretty versatile, but yeah I would go with a different brand of speaker cab.  Depending on your budget, I highly recommend Eden or Genz Benz cabs.  If you've got a bunch of money to play with, I would thoroughly suggest you check out Accugroove cabs.  They're the best cabs in the universe.  But expensive!  (Even more than Eden)
 
At any rate, I'm interested in hearing about your cab shopping experiences.  Let me know how it goes.




Post 13

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:41pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hey Joe, I listened to about 7 of your tunes as well. Enjoyed all of them. I like the Gilmour one the best. I was jumping around and clicking on the titles I liked. I'm really into lyrics and am very demanding as, I think, you are when it comes to what really knocks my socks off.

What program did you use? I know there's one called Reason and there's another one that I can't think of the name...grr. I had a student who did some great stuff that's in that's not echoes a bit of your stuff. If you're innarested I'll send you an mp3 of a couple of his tunes. I think you'd like it.

What are you looking to do musically?  

(Edited by Lance Moore on 10/23, 12:29am)




Post 14

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 11:51pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Jake, everybody raves about those Edens. I have a hard time justifying that kind of money though. They're like 3 times more expensive than the hartke ones. But if the Hartke stuff is gonna break down I'd be better off spendin' the money. Tough decision.

I love those Thumb basses by the way. I will own one soon.




Post 15

Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 7:52amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit

Hey Lance, thanks for checking them out. I don't use any programs, it's all done the old fashioned way...I have a Roland VS 840, Fender Strat, microKprg keyboard, and Boss MB8E pedal, and (had) A zoom drum machine controlled with yamaha drum oads. Just overdubbed the instruments, haven't begun to explore computer programs for music yet, though that's just a matter of time, I suppose.
Yeah, I am also demanding of lyrics (and vocals), which is why I don't do them! I Have a hard enough time with titles...haven't found my singing voice yet, either.



Post 16

Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 7:53amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hey Lance, thanks for checking them out. I don't use any programs, it's all done the old fashioned way...I have a Roland VS 840, Fender Strat, microKorg keyboard, and Boss MB8E pedal, and (had) A zoom drum machine controlled with yamaha drum pads. Just overdubbed the instruments, haven't begun to explore computer programs for music yet, though that's just a matter of time, I suppose.
Yeah, I am also demanding of lyrics (and vocals), which is why I don't do them! I Have a hard enough time with titles...haven't found my singing voice yet, either.



Post 17

Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 7:53amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hey Lance, thanks for checking them out. I don't use any programs, it's all done the old fashioned way...I have a Roland VS 840, Fender Strat, microKorg keyboard, and Boss MB8E pedal, and (had) A zoom drum machine controlled with yamaha drum pads. Just overdubbed the instruments, haven't begun to explore computer programs for music yet, though that's just a matter of time, I suppose.
Yeah, I am also demanding of lyrics (and vocals), which is why I don't do them! I Have a hard enough time with titles...haven't found my singing voice yet, either.



Post 18

Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
And Lance, I'd love to hear your student's music. As for what I want to do...My dream is either to do soudtracks for animation, and to have my cds sold in comic book stores.



Post 19

Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 11:48pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Yeah Lance, the Edens are expensive, hence the fact I've never owned anything made by them.  A local dealer used to carry Eden and Genz Benz both and when I compared the 2, I didn't think the Eden stuff had any advantage over the Genz Benz.  And at that time, Genz Benz was still an unknown name more or less, so I wanted the stuff no one else had.  :)
 
The Thumb basses certainly have a distinctive sound.  There are some sound clips I recorded with it on that link I gave for the pics.  http://users.1st.net/milk/Thumb5/Clips/
 
It's got a "bloop" kinda sound when you rake across the strings.  I loved it for the hard rock stuff I was doing.  But the tone just wasn't right for my more recent bands (although after some consideration, I think a pickup or pre-amp upgrade could've given me the tone it seemed to lack), so I sold it in favor of the Streamer LX.  The Streamer balances a lot better on a strap too.  But there is no substitute for the tone of a Warwick Thumb.  And mine was a 94, so it was completely handmade, and had the wenge neck, recessed strap locks, and the brass adjustable nut.  Now they use ovangkol for their necks, install plain ol' strap buttons, and make the nut out of a composite material called Wilferite.  I actually prefer the Wilferite nut because the brass ones were notorious for being cut a little sharp on the edges and slamming down to a first-fret note was a real killer!  But the recessed strap locks are awesome and the wenge necks were the best in the business.  Wenge's a rare wood so now they use it sparingly.  My Streamer is a 98, so it still has the straplocks and wenge neck, but has the wilferite nut.  The best of all worlds.  :)

(Edited by Jake Moore on 10/24, 11:49pm)




Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page
User ID Password or create a free account.