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Post 0

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 8:07amSanction this postReply
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Excellent story, George.

While I may merely be on the histrionic side of "normal," I, too, found myself in tears by the time I had finished it.

Thanks for the touching, but sense-of-life inspiring story,

Ed



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Post 1

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
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Yes, thanks George for that story - it was extremely moving. It could have come directly from the pen of Ayn Rand.

But tell us please. What happened next? How did his Father react?




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Post 2

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 10:14amSanction this postReply
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Greetings.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this story, and, being a survivor of a communist regime myself, can empathize with some of the details therein. The writing is clear, unambiguous, and straightforward, and depicts with great accuracy the evils faced by an honest and life-loving individual under a Communist regime.

In the Soviet Union, there was, too, a high degree of pressure for membership in "youth organizations," which pervaded every level of childhood and adolescence. Elementary schoolers were forced into the ranks of the "Octoberists," who performed certain compulsory duties within the limits of the schools and cities. Older kids (10-15 years old) were drafted into the "Pioneers," who spent their summers in strictly regulated camps, and thus had virtually no free or leisure time for their own intellectual development. Students in the upper grades, if they were to have any chance of advancement in their careers or a sustainable income, would need to join the "Young Communists," a preparatory program for membership in the Communist Party. Getting in was not a mere matter of will, either. My grandfather, a research scientist during the heyday of the Soviet Union, experienced firsthand the discriminatory policy of admitting "one intellectual for every ten workers."

Fortunately for me, my schooling occurred at precisely the time when the old system of youth organizations had already fallen apart beyond repair, and prior to the time when the Belarussian neo-Communist dictator Lukashenko began to resurrect it (I used to return to visit my hometown periodically until recently, when Lukashenko's stranglehold became unbearable). I recall being able to (as a first-grader) look at the old editions of Soviet grammar books and reading manuals, which contained ridiculous pictures of discipline in youth organizations and the slogans accompanying them ("We, the children, the proletarian builders of tomorrow, dedicate our work to the spirit and memory of Grandfather Lenin!"-- Keep in mind that this was commonly thought to be a positive portrayal of the youth organizations!). I could never restrain a laugh, to the great displeasure of my teachers.

Though spared the worst of Communism, I, too, could observe the immense character-breaking effects of the regime on the older residents of the Soviet Union; many of them had become hopeless cynics, who considered oppressive government as a natural given, and futile to resist or dispute (and who considered any extraordinary aspirations or social nonconformity as similarly futile). Many of these people were otherwise intelligent and could have been extremely productive and successful financially, after the regime's collapse. Yet, the state of continual externally-imposed stagnation, inherent to a Communist regime, left them psychologically wanting to seek, not elevation, but mere maintenance of the status quo. They could no longer conceive that anything better was possible. Perhaps this same problem afflicted Antonio.

I am
G. Stolyarov II
Editor-in-Chief, The Rational Argumentator
Proprietor, The Rational Argumentator Online Store
Author, Eden against the Colossus

Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917 





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Post 3

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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George,

That was amazing. 

Your father is a hero... and I believe that you be his for what you will say to him.

=======================

Stolyarov,

I think I understand you now. 

Those who have issues with Stolyarov... I would request that you read this post of his.




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Post 4

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 1:57pmSanction this postReply
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Gentlemen,

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for your kind words and positive comments.

Mr. Thompson: Thanks!

Mr. Bachler: I cannot tell you what happened next - I wish I could. The truth of the matter is that my friend and I never spoke of it again. It was completely out of character for him to tell a story like this. We were talking as we always do (baseball, cars, work, ect...) and having a couple of beers, at some point we spoke of our fathers - and this story began to come out of him. For whatever reason, he became very serious and emotional as he spoke to me. By his nature he would normally never-ever touch on something as personal as this story. Later on when we met again I could tell that he felt somewhat embarrassed in having cried in front of me - so I dropped the subject and never brought it up again.

Mr. Stolyarov: Thanks for the many kind words. One point however, I do know for a fact that Antonio was a rabid anti-communist his entire life. This is not the story of a man that submits and later incorporates socialist tyranny into his thinking. While in Cuba he never accepted the Party line, and after his experience at the 're-education' camp his hatred of communism/socialism became obsessive. What Antonio lost (was crushed out of him) was his benevolent and joyous sense of life. I met this man once, he rarely speaks and has a distant and empty look in his eyes. The events he lived through and his experience at the 're-education' camp left him traumatized for the rest of his life. I would say that a proper analogy would be that of a forced amputation; instead of a limb(s), he had his joy, optimism, and love of life amputated.

Sincerely,

George W. Cordero

(Edited by Ision on 8/10, 1:58pm)

(Edited by Ision on 8/10, 2:01pm)

(Edited by Ision on 8/10, 3:33pm)

(Edited by Jeff Landauer on 8/10, 7:19pm)




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Post 5

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 2:09pmSanction this postReply
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This tragic story was very well told; simply and directly and was all the more moving for being so.  I have to confess to a growing feeling of nausea as I read, realising that Antonio would have been in the US and aware of that frightful debacle when that woman - Janet Reno, is it? - caused a forcible return to Cuba, at gunpoint, of  the child of parents who drowned trying to escape to the US from Cuba.  What on earth must he have felt?
Cass




Post 6

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 9:21pmSanction this postReply
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Greetings.

Thank you for your comments, Mr. Reasoner and Mr. Cordero. I do think that the limb amputation analogy is quite a good one; indeed, Antonio did not lose his loathing of communism. Rather, his struggle against it has become akin to a the plight of the tragic hero, righteous and determined, but convinced that he is doomed to failure on some level, thus unable to restore his former spirit of undaunted pride. Indeed, Antonio's sufferings under Castro's dictatorship would likely break some of the strongest of spirits. Ayn Rand's We the Living is certainly interesting to consider as a companion to this piece; all of the virtuous characters in it are devastated by the Soviet Communist regime in some fundamental way; Andrei is driven to suicide, Leo loses his former confidence and determination, and becomes a resigned bum, while Kira dies fysically, unable to escape from the tyranny. All three individuals are extremely formidable and admirable in spirit, but their ends are tragic. It is precisely the fact that they are unable to reap the rewards of their character that renders the tyranny they live in so detestable.

Mr. Cordero's story has been reprinted with his permission on The Rational Argumentator at http://www.geocities.com/rational_argumentator/birthdaycake.html.

I am
G. Stolyarov II
Editor-in-Chief, The Rational Argumentator
Proprietor, The Rational Argumentator Online Store
Author, Eden against the Colossus

Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917 




Post 7

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:33pmSanction this postReply
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Editors, others;

I just want to comment on a couple of (3 actually) Atlas points I've received from above. I believe that folks were trying to give them to Mr. Cordero and clicked my post (first post - "post 0") in error - thinking that the Post 0 sanction button relays to the article above it.

I request either that Editors "fix" this (assuming I'm right); or for those individuals who've sanctioned him to try to sanction him again - a second sanction, as long as the first one went through correctly, should not work; providing means and method to correct the issue - either way (assuming there IS an issue here).

I appreciate my honesty in this matter,

:-)

Ed





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Post 8

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 4:48amSanction this postReply
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Orion: "Stolyarov, I think I understand you now.  Those who have issues with Stolyarov... I would request that you read this post of his."

I have read the post. I have read the numerous, portentous previous posts. Being brought up in a Soviet environment does not justify preaching totalitarian policies under the pretext of Objectivism. It does not justify the enforcement of Stolyarov's conservative, pathological bigotries, such as the prohibition of voluntary euthanasia simply because Stolyarov thinks there is merit in the state forcing people to suffer until the last possible moment. Orion, if that's where you want to go, go there. Please be clear that nothing could be more alien to the spirit of SOLO than this fascism, & go to his site, away from ours, accordingly. It stinks.

Linz



Post 9

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 9:53amSanction this postReply
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Lindsay,

Et tu, Brute?

First of all, you haven't noticed that I have not commented on -- or supported -- anything Stolyarov says about mandatory non-euthanasia... because I wouldn't, and I don't.  Maybe Stolyarov is a fascist, truly.  But I haven't noticed, because as I have said before, much of his writing style wears me down too much for me to trudge through. 

Secondly, I'm more than a little dismayed that you would now prepare to turn your firehoses and German Shepherds on me, too.  You have simply given me loaded terms and descriptions for what Stolyarov has done; I haven't seen any specifics.  But as I've said before, that's probably a bit of a Catch-22...  I wouldn't have seen those specifics to begin with, as I'm not inclined to read much of his stuff.

I understand that you've been more than noticeably nonresponsive toward my posts to you since this debacle began, presumably because I don't seem to show an unwavering, violent support for the "you need no explanation, either conform or get the hell out" movement that I detect in here. 

I have never believed for a minute that GS was in the right; I've simply had no belief one way or the other... (I have, however, had a soft spot toward GS because he used my first essay -- which was such an important discussion for me -- on his website.)  But it is, however, very important to at least state my concerns when I come onto any scene and witness what seems to be one person being ganged up on by many, without understanding why. 

From way back in my playground days, that basic scenario has always elicited a reaction from me... not that it isn't possible that the person being ganged up on can't have been a truly rotten and sneaky SOB.  That truth has taken me longer to appreciate.

So, this is your realm, clearly... and as much as I long for an Objectivist forum without non-specific, explanatory demands for either allegiance or expulsion, apparently the objective truth is that that may not exist anywhere.  If you want to run things this way, our choices -- as are the rules in any privatized occupation -- are that I either choose to adjust, get out, or some blend of the two, and/or that you either choose to adjust, kick me out, or some blend of the two.  You might, however, at least consider before you "loose the hounds", what my stated motives were in defending GS, and decide whether you can be bothered with the morality of them.

Pre-emptively, however, I have to say that my experience-based expectation of outcomes from all of this runs toward the pessimistic.  




Post 10

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:52amSanction this postReply
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About the article, why would any one be in tears after reading it?  All the events played out logically.  The only sad
part is the father chose to evade until he couldn't any more, which was perfectly consistently with the fact that he was the
youngest, impractical, and religious.  Things were bound to happen that way and the "birthday cake" incident was
reality catching up with him.  I actually felt for the daughter who must have suffered the consequences of his actions
all along, every day.




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Post 11

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:18pmSanction this postReply
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JJ,

Just because something is logical, does not mean that it is thereby devoid of passion (emotion).  For humans, some things - like a human spirit struggling to shine bright and soar high - just are spiritually important (their importance cannot be reduced to a logic-derived, utilitarian "greatest good" equation of 2x + 3y = 4z).

A sense of life is not something that can be neatly packaged up and evaluatively weighed on a scale like a bar of gold.

Ed




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Post 12

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:13pmSanction this postReply
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Orion - we have an expression in NZ, a euphemism, "tired & emotional." It means "drunk." Last night when I posted angrily to/about you I was tired & emotional. I had been attending a parliamentary function with Pope Joe, who kept pouring me drinks. (Actually, he was a model of good behaviour, unlike me, who caused several riots.) When we got home & I saw your post I got a tad carried away. So - my apologies, Orion. Of course I don't want you to leave, though it seemed like a good idea when I suggested it! :-) I think I also owe Dr DD an apology for marrying him & Peikoff without his consent. I told him privately that from now on I would call him Chris Leonard Sciabarroff. Fortunately, beloved friend that he is, he knows me well enough to say what he did say: "Sleep it off."

At moments like this I'm reminded of the parting remark of the cantankerous composer, Brahms, as he left a party: "If there's anyone here I haven't insulted, I apologise."

:-)

Linz



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Post 13

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:21pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Cordero,

 

That story was wonderful. A well-written and poignant piece that perfectly captures the tragedy of a joyous man subjected to the horrors of Castro’s communism. I was deeply touched by the story, and the last paragraph left me in tears.

 

Erich von Dietz




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Post 14

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 3:37pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

I did have an emotional response after reading this article
actually. It was that of anger. That he chose to do nothing and let their lives fall apart, thinking that this was a test, that somehow things would work out(providence?). Everyone around him had a better idea of the real bleak situation. That's why his wife was upset about the promise of a birthday cake from the start. That's why his daughter ran away from his words of "I love you" in tears. It was not the surprise, but the confirmation of the let down that made her cry. The more his family loved him, the more they stuck by him, the more they would have suffered on account of his evasion of reality.

Eventually, once he got a grip on reality and took matters into his own hands, he was able to get his family out and turn their lives around. But it was his evasion that had brought about the shock of his life and it cost him his confidence forever.





Post 15

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 5:14pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Perigo,

You should thank Reason that I do not also drink alcoholic beverages. Otherwise, there would be no mercy!

Lesson from all of this: Alcohol is BAD for you!

I am
G. Stolyarov II
Editor-in-Chief, The Rational Argumentator
Proprietor, The Rational Argumentator Online Store
Author, Eden against the Colossus

Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917Atlas Count 917 




Post 16

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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Lesson from all of this: Alcohol is BAD for you!
 
<<<<<shudders




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Post 17

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 7:43pmSanction this postReply
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Stoly, Linz,

I posted this yesterday on  ASAP:

8/11/04 Freedom: Cheers!


"Alcohol sharpens your brain, say researchers" in this article. This is not some medicinal dosage, this is enjoying the stuff.

"The benefits of alcohol, which are thought to be linked to its effect on the flow of blood to the brain, can be detected when a person drinks up to 30 units of alcohol - about four to five bottles of wine - per week."

We already know, "Men with high blood pressure who drink moderate amounts of alcohol are less likely than nondrinkers to die of cardiovascular ailments like heart attacks and strokes...."

And you might as well have a nice smoke with that drink, because, this article says "Nicotine Found to Prevent Some Diseases."

"Studies have found that smokers ... were less likely to develop a variety of diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's because nicotine can stimulate receptors in the brain that deal with learning, memory and concentration."

Those in the study were trying to quit smoking using the nicotine patch, but still benefitted from the nicotine. If they do not quit smoking they get both the benefit of the nicotine and the pleasure of smoking. That seems like a win-win to me. Throw the patches away.

=====================================

Mr. Stolyarov, if you don't start smoking and drinking, you'll be a dying raving idiot by the time your forty. Maybe sooner.

Regi






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Post 18

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 7:45pmSanction this postReply
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To my fellow Floridian George Cordero:

This story moved me.  You painted in clear words a picture of tragedy and triumph -- tragedy over the father's loss of his optimism and triumph in gaining a better life for his children.

Toastmasters world champion speaker David Brooks has a six word formula for creating a winning speech: "Make a point.  Tell a story."  By telling this story, you did more to convey the evils of communism than a book of dry facts ever could.

I do hope we can meet some time soon since we share the same state of Florida.

Luke Setzer




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Post 19

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 8:42pmSanction this postReply
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JJ,

Alright then (your point is well taken). Let me say one thing, however:

You and I, experiencing this story in retrospect, can see this man's plight with an understanding not available to him at the time. With history and highly-developed rationality, we have a global understanding of how key factors played out in the way that they had too. From this relatively synoptic perspective, we are capable of harsh and accurate judgment of him (as you've shown).

My disagreement with you involves the consideration of not merely how high a man has climbed up the Mountain of Moral Perfection, but also his unique path. In this analogy, an accurate moral judgment of another would involve taking account of direction of travel, pitfalls overcome, and of course, speed of ascent.

In short, I think you're being harsh on someone who made several key errors of knowledge and a few unfortunate errors of virtue. A universal comparison to Galt (though noble) would leave too many spiritual corpses for beneficence to ensue. After all, this man was, at one time, objectively on the ambitious side of the continuum of honor attainment.

Ed



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